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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Oct 4, 2010 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

You are correct sir - cleaning up the vocals means re-recording them in the studio and adding effects to simulate a similar ambient background to match the original recording. Then replacing those vocal tracks on the 16 track masters (or safety masters) to be mixed down to stereo.

From what I remember reading, back in the day, the Europe 72 vocals were actually re-recorded to give the album a more 'polished' sound.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 4, 2010 8:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

Well, that explanation makes sense. (Though just about any explanation would probably make sense to me, LOL.)

I tend to think E 72 might be the best "intro album" among the official (pre-DP etc) releases. I always liked it better than AB or WD. But I haven't actually heard it in years. It's interesting that, for all the work put into polishing it (and other albums), the raw, live, warts-and-all sound seems to be what draws and keeps people in the end ... Guess no one would have imagined that in the 70s.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 5, 2010 12:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

You're right that the band tried to 'polish' their live albums, feeling that they could best present themselves through lots of overdubbing... I think their desire for studio-perfect live albums skewed those albums towards the more 'polished' listener-friendly songs, leaving more interesting material unreleased.
Fortunately, fans were thrilled enough with the original 'warts & all' shows, they started taping & collecting like mad, making the 'official' albums almost irrelevant except to uninitiated Dead newcomers.

I discussed this a bit in this old essay:
http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2009/08/did-dead-like-their-live-albums.html

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Oct 4, 2010 9:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

Hi AR, still enjoying Nepal - warts and all?

"Guess no one would have imagined that in the 70s" - might I direct you to my TDIH - Winterland 10-4-70 thread from earlier today. It seems several of us older heads were taken by this raw, unadulterated show on bootleg vinyl . . . But I tend to agree with you that Europe 72 won over several newcomers and nonbelievers to the cause - something for everyone, as i used to say. Many folks in college had 'old ice cream head' as their first and/or only Dead album. If you haven't heard it in a while, pick up the remastered 2 CD digipack now reduced to midprice and often available - in the western world - for under $10. A heck of a deal.

By the way, were you ever able to listen to Paris 5-3-72 in it's entirety? If so, 5-4-72 is equally worth the effort. For years this was my overseas flight Dark Star listening. The two nights together are possibly my favorite pairing ever - desert island discs (all 7!) indeed.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 4, 2010 10:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

Oh, definitely. And it's pretty familiar territory, actually. I lived here in the 90s. Read about JG's death in the Kathmandu Post ...

>"Guess no one would have imagined that in the 70s" -

Yeah, certainly a lot of folks appreciated and even preferred the raw stuff (tapes, of course, and yeah, I had a bootleg on vinyl, too ... late 70s, but an early 70s show ... wish I knew which one!). But I'm thinking more of the band themselves and people involved in record production. "Polished" seems to have been the goal, with the paradoxical idea that somehow, if they polished it right, it would approximate the energy of the live performances, and that this "polished" version -- either a studio album or a cleaned-up live album -- would be the long-term keeper, with the tape trading as a temporary phenomenon. When in fact, the opposite essentially turned out to be true. The tapers ended up driving the horse, as it were, and it's been the live esthetic that has predominated. I'd guess more people get into the GD now through DPs and the IA than through the albums.

Oh, and yeah, I've managed to grapple with the technology over here enough to listen to most of what I want to hear, though it's not just click-n-stream; definitely, 5/3/72 is fantastic! Will try 5/4, too. Kathmandu's ever-entertaining bumper-to-rickshaw traffic is far more bearable with a soundtrack. Though of course, Bollywood Film Hits are good for ambience, too. With multiple car horns for punctuation.

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Oct 4, 2010 11:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: China > Rider

Bollywood hits with car horns ... i can hear it in my mind's ear - and it sounds fantastic!

"Polished" seems to have been the goal - for Warner Brothers is how i understood it to be. Others here on the forum may have more facts and details, but the story back when it was released, as i remember it, was that Warners was the entity that wanted to 'polish' up the vocals to make it more commercially viable. The Dead agreed to oblige if they could release it as a 3 record set. It was their most commercially successful record to date, but talk was that the dead were feeling artistically compromised - once again i'm going on old talk and rumours of the day. Soon after, they left Warners and started Grateful Dead Records.

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